Saturday, November 15, 2008
Supporting a Thursday Crucifixion
A Logical Progression.
If today were Wednesday, and I said to you that today is the third day since Sunday, would you have a problem with that? Because yesterday,Tuesday, would have been the second day since Sunday and the day before that, Monday, would have been the first day SINCE Sunday. No real problem with that is there?
So on that basis there should be no problem in determing what day Cleopas and his friend spoke of in:-
"Luk 24:18 And the one of them, whose name was Cleopas, answering said unto him, Art thou only a stranger in Jerusalem, and hast not known the things which are come to pass there in these days?
Luk 24:19 And he said unto them, What things? And they said unto him, Concerning Jesus of Nazareth, which was a prophet mighty in deed and word before God and all the people:
Luk 24:20 And how the chief priests and our rulers delivered him to be condemned to death, and have crucified him.
Luk 24:21 But we trusted that it had been he which should have redeemed Israel: and beside all this, to day is the third day since these things were done."
Previous scripture tells us that the day that Cleopas and friend met with Jesus on the road to Emmaus was on Sunday, the first day of the week, as in:-
" Luk 24:12 Then arose Peter, and ran unto the sepulchre; and stooping down, he beheld the linen clothes laid by themselves, and departed, wondering in himself at that which was come to pass.
Luk 24:13 And, behold, two of them went that same day to a village called Emmaus, which was from Jerusalem about threescore furlongs.
Luk 24:14 And they talked together of all these things which had happened.
Luk 24:15 And it came to pass, that, while they communed together and reasoned, Jesus himself drew near, and went with them.
Luk 24:16 But their eyes were holden that they should not know him."
The first day of the week, Sunday, is three days since the previous Thursday, the day Jesus was crucified.
If today were Wednesday, and I said to you that today is the third day since Sunday, would you have a problem with that? Because yesterday,Tuesday, would have been the second day since Sunday and the day before that, Monday, would have been the first day SINCE Sunday. No real problem with that is there?
So on that basis there should be no problem in determing what day Cleopas and his friend spoke of in:-
"Luk 24:18 And the one of them, whose name was Cleopas, answering said unto him, Art thou only a stranger in Jerusalem, and hast not known the things which are come to pass there in these days?
Luk 24:19 And he said unto them, What things? And they said unto him, Concerning Jesus of Nazareth, which was a prophet mighty in deed and word before God and all the people:
Luk 24:20 And how the chief priests and our rulers delivered him to be condemned to death, and have crucified him.
Luk 24:21 But we trusted that it had been he which should have redeemed Israel: and beside all this, to day is the third day since these things were done."
Previous scripture tells us that the day that Cleopas and friend met with Jesus on the road to Emmaus was on Sunday, the first day of the week, as in:-
" Luk 24:12 Then arose Peter, and ran unto the sepulchre; and stooping down, he beheld the linen clothes laid by themselves, and departed, wondering in himself at that which was come to pass.
Luk 24:13 And, behold, two of them went that same day to a village called Emmaus, which was from Jerusalem about threescore furlongs.
Luk 24:14 And they talked together of all these things which had happened.
Luk 24:15 And it came to pass, that, while they communed together and reasoned, Jesus himself drew near, and went with them.
Luk 24:16 But their eyes were holden that they should not know him."
The first day of the week, Sunday, is three days since the previous Thursday, the day Jesus was crucified.
# posted by Ralph @ 3:07 PM 
Comments:
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lnrd said...
we are not alone
Agreed, in a sense. However the content of your reference ie:-
http://mb-soft.com/public/crucif.html
seems to negate "Three days and three nights". A Thursday night burial, after sunset, only leaves two days and not three; bearing in mind that He was resurrected sometime before Sunday sunrise, before "it began to dawn towards the first day of the week", not after half of Sunday had passed as your reference seems to suggest.
we are not alone
Agreed, in a sense. However the content of your reference ie:-
http://mb-soft.com/public/crucif.html
seems to negate "Three days and three nights". A Thursday night burial, after sunset, only leaves two days and not three; bearing in mind that He was resurrected sometime before Sunday sunrise, before "it began to dawn towards the first day of the week", not after half of Sunday had passed as your reference seems to suggest.
Hello Ralph, thought I'd drop by and tell you thanks for dropping by my blog and commenting.
As for this post, in the Hebrew count of days, it runs from sunset to sunset. As in Genesis where G*D describes Creation as, "...and the evening and the morning of the first day..."
Since HE started the way days were counted, we might want to take that into account in the day count.
How that would play out might make a difference.
I try to go back to the Jewish perspective, it gives a fresh view when looking at a "certain" Jewish rabbi. And HIS Jewish disciples.
Have you ever seen a Hebrew-English Interlinear Old testament? Or the Greek-English Interlinear New Testament. There are certain subtilties and added meanings that enrich our understanding of what G*D is conveying.
Well worth a look!
G*D bless and MARANATHA!
tmw
As for this post, in the Hebrew count of days, it runs from sunset to sunset. As in Genesis where G*D describes Creation as, "...and the evening and the morning of the first day..."
Since HE started the way days were counted, we might want to take that into account in the day count.
How that would play out might make a difference.
I try to go back to the Jewish perspective, it gives a fresh view when looking at a "certain" Jewish rabbi. And HIS Jewish disciples.
Have you ever seen a Hebrew-English Interlinear Old testament? Or the Greek-English Interlinear New Testament. There are certain subtilties and added meanings that enrich our understanding of what G*D is conveying.
Well worth a look!
G*D bless and MARANATHA!
tmw
What I answered you at my post, again, sorry for any rudeness...just a little wary and checking!
"I didn't mean that! Goodness, sorry if I was a rude...I was just trying to make sure it was honest inquiry, that's all!
There have been some approaches that weren't as innocent.
Learning and asking questions is good, and I have no problem with it.
Just making sure is all!
tmw"
S'alright?
tmw
"I didn't mean that! Goodness, sorry if I was a rude...I was just trying to make sure it was honest inquiry, that's all!
There have been some approaches that weren't as innocent.
Learning and asking questions is good, and I have no problem with it.
Just making sure is all!
tmw"
S'alright?
tmw
Hi TMW, thanks for your visit. You commented:-
"in the Hebrew count of days, it runs from sunset to sunset. As in Genesis where G*D describes Creation as, "...and the evening and the morning of the first day..."
Since HE started the way days were counted, we might want to take that into account in the day count."
and yes, in the Hebrew manner of accounting a full day, it is from sunset to sunset. Scripture also records:-
"Joh 11:9 Jesus answered, Are there not twelve hours in the day? If any man walk in the day, he stumbleth not, because he seeth the light of this world."
We all know that from time immemorial the "day" has been divided into 24 hours but we credit ourselves with understanding what Jesus meant because He goes on to say:-
"Joh 11:10 But if a man walk in the night, he stumbleth, because there is no light in him."
With regard to His death He said:-
"Mat 12:40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth."
I think of particular importance is His sequence "three DAYS and three nights", not "three nights and three days".
Scripture tells that He was buried in the tomb BEFORE sunset on the day of His crucifixion viz:-
"Luk 23:53 And he took it down, and wrapped it in linen, and laid it in a sepulchre that was hewn in stone, wherein never man before was laid.
Luk 23:54 And that day was the preparation, and the sabbath drew on."-- it, the Sabbath, the annual Sabbath of the First Day of Unleavened Bread, had not yet arrived.
At this point I think it necessary to take account of Hebrew 'idiom' ie: "1a : the language peculiar to a people or to a district, community,.." (source-Merriam-Webster)
JewishEncyclopedia.com here shows:-
"In Jewish communal life part of a day is at times reckoned as one day; e.g., the day of the funeral, even when the latter takes place late in the afternoon, is counted as the first of the seven days of mourning; a short time in the morning of the seventh day is counted as the seventh day;"
Consequently, in the Hebrew idiom,
the day of Jesus entombment counts as the first of the three DAYS and three nights of which He spoke.
Thursday - day 1
Thursday night - night 1
Friday - day 2 (an annual Sabbath, the first day of Unleavened Bread)
Friday night - night 2
Sabbath - day 3 (weekly Sabbath)
Sabbath night - night 3
three DAYS and three nights,
and resurrected before Sunday sunrise.
"Joh 20:1 The first day of the week cometh Mary Magdalene early, when it was yet dark, unto the sepulchre, and seeth the stone taken away from the sepulchre."
and
"Mat 28:6 He is not here: for he is risen, as he said. Come, see the place where the Lord lay."
not "rising' - RISEN, and gone from there.
---------
Also, I didn't think you at all rude. I do appreciate that my comments can be a little over zealous at times.
"S'alright!"
"in the Hebrew count of days, it runs from sunset to sunset. As in Genesis where G*D describes Creation as, "...and the evening and the morning of the first day..."
Since HE started the way days were counted, we might want to take that into account in the day count."
and yes, in the Hebrew manner of accounting a full day, it is from sunset to sunset. Scripture also records:-
"Joh 11:9 Jesus answered, Are there not twelve hours in the day? If any man walk in the day, he stumbleth not, because he seeth the light of this world."
We all know that from time immemorial the "day" has been divided into 24 hours but we credit ourselves with understanding what Jesus meant because He goes on to say:-
"Joh 11:10 But if a man walk in the night, he stumbleth, because there is no light in him."
With regard to His death He said:-
"Mat 12:40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth."
I think of particular importance is His sequence "three DAYS and three nights", not "three nights and three days".
Scripture tells that He was buried in the tomb BEFORE sunset on the day of His crucifixion viz:-
"Luk 23:53 And he took it down, and wrapped it in linen, and laid it in a sepulchre that was hewn in stone, wherein never man before was laid.
Luk 23:54 And that day was the preparation, and the sabbath drew on."-- it, the Sabbath, the annual Sabbath of the First Day of Unleavened Bread, had not yet arrived.
At this point I think it necessary to take account of Hebrew 'idiom' ie: "1a : the language peculiar to a people or to a district, community,.." (source-Merriam-Webster)
JewishEncyclopedia.com here shows:-
"In Jewish communal life part of a day is at times reckoned as one day; e.g., the day of the funeral, even when the latter takes place late in the afternoon, is counted as the first of the seven days of mourning; a short time in the morning of the seventh day is counted as the seventh day;"
Consequently, in the Hebrew idiom,
the day of Jesus entombment counts as the first of the three DAYS and three nights of which He spoke.
Thursday - day 1
Thursday night - night 1
Friday - day 2 (an annual Sabbath, the first day of Unleavened Bread)
Friday night - night 2
Sabbath - day 3 (weekly Sabbath)
Sabbath night - night 3
three DAYS and three nights,
and resurrected before Sunday sunrise.
"Joh 20:1 The first day of the week cometh Mary Magdalene early, when it was yet dark, unto the sepulchre, and seeth the stone taken away from the sepulchre."
and
"Mat 28:6 He is not here: for he is risen, as he said. Come, see the place where the Lord lay."
not "rising' - RISEN, and gone from there.
---------
Also, I didn't think you at all rude. I do appreciate that my comments can be a little over zealous at times.
"S'alright!"
This is the first or second time I've visited your blog, and I realize this is a very old post, but I have to tell you that I totally agree with you! I’m so grateful to know another who is not sold-out to men’s doctrines… especially the doctrines of the Catholic church.
The traditional Friday crucifixion certainly does not satisfy "three nights,” even in the Jewish context.
The much supported Wednesday crucifixion produces four nights since we know Mary and Mary went "when it was yet dark" but it was definitely just before daybreak: “And very early in the morning the first day of the week, they came unto the sepulchre at the rising of the sun.” - Mark 16:2 (KJV)
I'm no scholar, but I can count (without having to contort the meaning of Biblical days and nights to render my understanding). In counting as well as I do, and in agreement with you, there’s a plausible explanation that’s in keeping with the Jewish context: Friday was, indeed, the annual Pesach Sabbath; therefore, it was two full, back-to-back Sabbath days before Mary and Mary returned to the tomb (early in the dawn of morning of the first day of the week).
God bless you!
-Deborah
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The traditional Friday crucifixion certainly does not satisfy "three nights,” even in the Jewish context.
The much supported Wednesday crucifixion produces four nights since we know Mary and Mary went "when it was yet dark" but it was definitely just before daybreak: “And very early in the morning the first day of the week, they came unto the sepulchre at the rising of the sun.” - Mark 16:2 (KJV)
I'm no scholar, but I can count (without having to contort the meaning of Biblical days and nights to render my understanding). In counting as well as I do, and in agreement with you, there’s a plausible explanation that’s in keeping with the Jewish context: Friday was, indeed, the annual Pesach Sabbath; therefore, it was two full, back-to-back Sabbath days before Mary and Mary returned to the tomb (early in the dawn of morning of the first day of the week).
God bless you!
-Deborah
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